[00:00:00] Did you know that in New York it’s

[00:00:02] illegal to drive after smoking weed?

[00:00:04] Many believe recreational cannabis is a

[00:00:07] free pass, but that’s not true. Even if

[00:00:10] you only have a little green in your

[00:00:12] system, you can be pulled over and face

[00:00:14] serious charges. And it gets worse. If

[00:00:17] someone is smoking in your car, you

[00:00:18] [music] can still get a ticket. Even if

[00:00:20] you weren’t the one lighting up, police

[00:00:23] are cracking down on impaired driving to

[00:00:25] keep roads safe. So, if you enjoy

[00:00:27] cannabis, remember, never drive high.

[00:00:30] It’s not just dangerous, it’s illegal.

[00:00:33] Your rights [music] are important, but

[00:00:35] so are your responsibilities. Always opt

[00:00:37] for a sober ride or use designated

[00:00:40] drivers. Knowledge [music] is power,

[00:00:42] especially with the laws changing all

[00:00:43] the time. Stay informed, stay safe, and

[00:00:46] drive responsibly in the city that never

[00:00:48] sleeps.

[00:00:56] >> [cheering]

[00:01:01] >> Welcome back to Justice and Cannabis.

[00:01:04] I’m your host and co-le director of the

[00:01:07] Justice Lab, Sean Farrow. And with me,

[00:01:09] as always, is my co-host and co-le

[00:01:13] director, Jeff Hoffman.

[00:01:15] So this segment we’re going to talk

[00:01:17] about the ghost in the room. How past

[00:01:20] convictions still haunt so many of us.

[00:01:25] The Marijuana Regulation and Taxation

[00:01:27] Act or MARTA promised justice for

[00:01:32] so many people. But for tens of

[00:01:34] thousands of New Yorkers, a past

[00:01:36] conviction isn’t gone when the sentence

[00:01:38] ends. It lingers like a ghost, haunting

[00:01:41] every job interview, every apartment

[00:01:44] application, and even decisions about

[00:01:47] your children. Today, we’re confronting

[00:01:49] the ghost, exploring how it lingers, how

[00:01:52] it haunts, and how we could finally lay

[00:01:54] it to rest. First, we’re going to start

[00:01:56] with the personal impact and everyday

[00:01:59] consequences. Jeff, you know from time

[00:02:01] and time again with so many of our

[00:02:03] clients, so many New Yorkers when they

[00:02:05] go to do that job application or that

[00:02:08] house application, yeah, they’re not

[00:02:10] supposed to talk about it, the landlord

[00:02:12] or the the supervisor, but yet again,

[00:02:14] time and time again, these folks are

[00:02:16] just turned away. Talk to us a little

[00:02:19] bit about the impact that these

[00:02:21] convictions, misdemeanor, or felonies

[00:02:23] are having on New Yorkers as they’re

[00:02:24] trying to make their life better and

[00:02:27] trying to move forward. So this is

[00:02:28] exactly correct, Sean, and it’s one of

[00:02:30] the reasons why the legislature

[00:02:32] implemented the expungement provision in

[00:02:35] the law. We know it’s a fact. This is

[00:02:38] not anecdotal. We know it’s a fact that

[00:02:41] a person’s income is significantly

[00:02:44] impacted by having these convictions.

[00:02:46] The Brennan Center has said that

[00:02:49] misdemeanor convictions can result in up

[00:02:51] to a 15% decrease in a person’s

[00:02:54] earnings. And even worse, a felony can

[00:02:57] get up to 20% decrease in a person’s

[00:03:00] earnings. We’re talking about billions

[00:03:02] and billions of dollars, perhaps over 10

[00:03:05] billion dollars in the state of New York

[00:03:07] that people are missing out on in their

[00:03:10] employment opportunities due to these

[00:03:12] issues. And then the housing

[00:03:13] opportunities is quite simple. If you

[00:03:15] don’t have a place to live, it’s very

[00:03:16] difficult for you to do anything. Yeah.

[00:03:18] >> In your life. And so these are the

[00:03:21] ramifications

[00:03:22] of having a cannabis conviction that the

[00:03:25] cannabis law is looking to rectify.

[00:03:27] >> And we talked about it on our last

[00:03:29] segment how misdemeanor convictions are

[00:03:31] supposed to be automatically expunged.

[00:03:34] But how many people actually know that?

[00:03:37] How many people are actually

[00:03:38] experiencing that day to day?

[00:03:40] >> So in my experience and in your

[00:03:42] experience from have having helped a lot

[00:03:44] of folks with this, no one knows about

[00:03:46] it, right? The law did not require that

[00:03:49] the state reach out to individuals that

[00:03:52] had these convictions. And so

[00:03:54] unfortunately what happens is people do

[00:03:56] not know that their convictions have

[00:03:58] been expunged in the case of the

[00:04:00] misdemeanors. So unfortunately in the

[00:04:03] cases when they apply for jobs or apply

[00:04:06] for housing and the landlord or the

[00:04:08] employer incorrectly ask them about

[00:04:11] their conviction status these

[00:04:13] individuals don’t know that their

[00:04:14] convictions are no longer in effect and

[00:04:17] unfortunately will then answer those

[00:04:18] questions yes as we like to say check

[00:04:21] the yes box. Yeah. And what makes it

[00:04:23] even worse is that if if we escalate it

[00:04:26] just a little bit to felony convictions,

[00:04:28] right?

[00:04:28] >> So many of the landlords, so many of the

[00:04:31] uh managers at work, they’re not looking

[00:04:33] to see whether this was a cannabis

[00:04:35] conviction or not. They just see felony

[00:04:36] and it’s automatic no. To your point,

[00:04:39] even though they’re not supposed to. So

[00:04:41] what are folks supposed to do when they

[00:04:42] have a felony conviction and every time

[00:04:44] they go for an application, it’s popping

[00:04:47] up.

[00:04:47] >> Sure. So that is again one of the things

[00:04:50] that the Justice Lab does. It’s one of

[00:04:52] the core services that we offer to

[00:04:54] people that come to the Justice Lab. And

[00:04:56] again, this is a free service. We help

[00:04:58] you look at your record. We help

[00:05:01] determine what are the things that may

[00:05:03] impact you. Do you have cannabis

[00:05:05] convictions that we can get completely

[00:05:07] expunged or do you have other convictions

[00:05:10] where we can get you one of the many

[00:05:12] certificates that perhaps would allow

[00:05:14] you to vote again or a certificate of

[00:05:16] good conduct? all all these kinds of

[00:05:18] relief that you can get from that. And

[00:05:21] in addition, it is now possible to get

[00:05:23] your records sealed. In fact, there’s a

[00:05:25] law that several years from now is going

[00:05:27] to hopefully seal all convictions that

[00:05:30] are over a certain age. But right now,

[00:05:32] we still have to actively deal with

[00:05:34] this. And unfortunately, once again, the

[00:05:36] law did not require the state to notify

[00:05:39] people that have these convictions. Hey,

[00:05:42] the law now allows in the case of the

[00:05:44] cannabis convictions for this to be

[00:05:46] expunged and if you have some other type

[00:05:48] of conviction, there are pathways to

[00:05:51] ameliate the issues that you are facing

[00:05:54] due to having that conviction.

[00:05:56] >> So the two things you just said there I

[00:05:57] thought was fantastic. So one is we have

[00:05:59] to be proactive, right? there there is

[00:06:02] an actual energy and emotion that we

[00:06:04] need to put in place to make sure that

[00:06:06] your automatic expungements have

[00:06:08] happened as well as the felony

[00:06:10] convictions that we’re actually tackling

[00:06:11] them. What I think is also important

[00:06:13] here and we didn’t touch upon it on the

[00:06:15] last show but I want to touch upon it

[00:06:16] now is who is this really affecting the

[00:06:19] most. Right? We know that this cannabis

[00:06:22] uh prohibition is racist but how racist

[00:06:25] are we talking about? What I saw from my

[00:06:28] research here is that 5 7 times and 3.7

[00:06:33] times more likely are black and brown

[00:06:36] people to be convicted, not just

[00:06:38] arrested, convicted than their white

[00:06:41] peers here. And that just screams to me.

[00:06:45] So, we see that this is affecting our

[00:06:47] people here and the people that we want

[00:06:49] to help. What must we do to just push

[00:06:53] them or implore them in order to do more

[00:06:56] and become active and take advantage of

[00:06:58] what we can do here at the Justice Lab?

[00:07:00] So that’s part of what we’re doing here

[00:07:01] today. We’re trying to get the message

[00:07:03] out through all of the channels that we

[00:07:04] have access to, including television,

[00:07:08] through events that Cannabis Justice and

[00:07:10] Equity Initiative puts on where we try

[00:07:13] to get the message out. We have all

[00:07:15] kinds of outreach that we’re beginning

[00:07:16] to do with local government. As we know,

[00:07:19] New York City was the epicenter of this.

[00:07:22] New York City was by far the worst city

[00:07:26] on planet Earth for anti-cannabis

[00:07:28] enforcement,

[00:07:30] >> mostly, as you’ve already noted, against

[00:07:32] black and brown folks.

[00:07:33] >> Yeah.

[00:07:33] >> And we’ve been working with the city

[00:07:35] government here in particular to get

[00:07:37] this message out to be involved in the

[00:07:39] events that we’re in. We are working

[00:07:41] with legal aid and other uh uh legal

[00:07:45] focused groups that would have already

[00:07:47] interacted with these individuals

[00:07:48] perhaps helped them with their original

[00:07:50] cases and then getting a pipeline of the

[00:07:53] individuals that we had kind of hoped

[00:07:55] that the state would notify about these

[00:07:57] issues. But again, starting to create

[00:07:59] those pipelines where the organizations

[00:08:02] that have the touch points with

[00:08:04] individuals that are impacted by this,

[00:08:06] getting the message out that if you have

[00:08:08] a misdemeanor cannabis conviction, you

[00:08:10] need to get your certificate of

[00:08:11] disposition to make sure that it’s been

[00:08:13] cleared up. And if you have a felony,

[00:08:15] you need to reach out to us at the

[00:08:17] Cannabis Justice and Equity Initiative

[00:08:19] so that we can assist you doing the

[00:08:21] things that you have to do in court in

[00:08:23] order to get that felony conviction

[00:08:25] expunged. And that’s for free, right?

[00:08:27] >> That is 100% free. That’s what we That

[00:08:29] is what we do here at the Cannabis

[00:08:32] Justice and Equity Initiative.

[00:08:34] >> And what I want folks to understand is

[00:08:36] that it doesn’t just affect, you know,

[00:08:38] your job. If any job requires a license,

[00:08:40] it affects that. It affects your housing

[00:08:42] as we talked about, but it also affects

[00:08:44] as we know especially these times. It

[00:08:46] affects your immigration status. It can

[00:08:48] affect your ability to travel. Can you

[00:08:49] come back to the United States? So, this

[00:08:53] has a monstrous ripple effect that

[00:08:55] people need to make sure that they are

[00:08:57] locked into and addressing as soon as

[00:08:59] possible. And please reach out to Jeff

[00:09:01] and I to make sure that we’re doing

[00:09:03] everything possible to help you move

[00:09:06] forward without this ghost just haunting

[00:09:07] you at every turn. And I just want to

[00:09:10] make sure that we finish on this last

[00:09:11] point. All the work that we’ve done is

[00:09:14] not without some success and some hope,

[00:09:16] right? We have been successful in

[00:09:18] helping people clear their records. Can

[00:09:20] you share a story with us on that? Sure.

[00:09:21] So, probably the biggest case that we’ve

[00:09:24] dealt with, there’s an individual out in

[00:09:27] Western New York who after he served his

[00:09:29] time for his cannabis conviction, uh

[00:09:33] finished getting his degree, graduated

[00:09:35] with a master’s degree with honors, uh

[00:09:38] became an award-winning uh school

[00:09:40] psychologist, but unfortunately, he was

[00:09:42] not able to uh continue to get

[00:09:45] promotions within his career. And in

[00:09:47] fact, we got letters from puditive

[00:09:49] employers that said, “We know we offered

[00:09:52] you a job. We then found out about your

[00:09:54] conviction status, and now we have to

[00:09:56] retract that employment opportunity.”

[00:09:58] >> And unfortunately, as we’ve seen in many

[00:10:01] parts of the state, the judge that heard

[00:10:04] his case about expungement initially

[00:10:06] before he came to us just rejected it.

[00:10:08] Didn’t even basically read what

[00:10:10] >> didn’t do anything with the law.

[00:10:11] [laughter]

[00:10:11] >> Didn’t do anything based on law. just

[00:10:13] basically made up his own procedure and

[00:10:16] rejected the expungement. We then worked

[00:10:19] with this individual and refiled uh for

[00:10:23] reargument in front of the in front of

[00:10:25] the judge. Um, initially it looked like

[00:10:27] we were actually going to have to appeal

[00:10:28] his case to a higher court and then the

[00:10:32] assistant district attorney who was

[00:10:33] involved in the case kind of realized,

[00:10:36] hey, we’ve got a loser here and if we

[00:10:39] have to go appeal this, it’s going to

[00:10:41] look really bad for us and look really

[00:10:43] bad for the judge. So, we were able to

[00:10:45] convince them to basically give us

[00:10:47] everything we wanted. We got the judge

[00:10:49] on the record saying that yes, this

[00:10:52] individual’s conviction should be

[00:10:54] completely expunged with no substitution

[00:10:56] of a lower crime. And we got the uh

[00:10:59] district attorney to actually get on the

[00:11:01] record and say, “We didn’t do it right

[00:11:03] originally. We are now doing it right.

[00:11:06] This is the correct procedure for how

[00:11:08] these cases have to be dealt with.” And

[00:11:10] we now have that on the record so that

[00:11:11] we can use it in further cases when

[00:11:14] perhaps more conservative judges don’t

[00:11:16] want to expunge these convictions just

[00:11:18] because they don’t think it should be in

[00:11:20] direct contravention to what the law

[00:11:22] says.

[00:11:22] >> Well said here and we’ll kind of end on

[00:11:24] this point. Clearing your record, it

[00:11:27] it’s not always easy, but we’re here to

[00:11:29] help. And it goes beyond one person in

[00:11:32] terms of what effect it has on you and

[00:11:34] the effect it has on your family and

[00:11:36] your community. the record. Clearing the

[00:11:38] record not only repairs your

[00:11:40] reputations, but it opens doors to jobs,

[00:11:43] licenses, and opportunities, and most

[00:11:45] importantly, to your chance to fully

[00:11:47] participate in society again. A true

[00:11:49] fresh start, and we do it for free. So,

[00:11:52] the call to action is simple. Your past

[00:11:54] doesn’t have to haunt your future. The

[00:11:56] ghost can be removed, and there’s a path

[00:11:58] forward. We’ll guide you every step of

[00:12:00] the way for free.

[00:12:02] >> That’s it, my friend. Let’s get it done.

[00:12:04] >> Let’s get it done. Back to you.